Q

The Church Thing

So, i opened WordPress today wanting primarily to write about Freddi Fish and how incredibly happy i am to be reliving my childhood again, but –

i feel like the Leaving the Church post warrants some sort of proper addressing, if only because i’ve gotten such reassuring replies. so, things.

i was pleasantly surprised by how most if not all believers who commented/ contacted me in some way were very accepting of my views even if they contradicted theirs. also nice was the emails that told me how they could identify.

may not have replied to all, but i really really appreciate the responses. so thanks everyone.

when i started writing that post it was intended to be just a personal observation, not such a general commentary on God and church. but if there’s one thing i do chronically it is DIGRESS (ref: attention span issues).

since this is what most people latched on to doggedly i guess i’ll give a little context about The Joss Sticks Issue.

in church 5 years ago, we were given a checklist to tick off and assess how ‘sinful’ we were – meant to induce spiritual improvement by changing aspects where we have sinned. these included thoughts, activities and behavior. one of the columns included joss sticks burning (there were many, many others).

i remember the amount of unease i felt over my faith, although i clearly believed in God, loved God, and tried my best to live out His words in practice. now, on hindsight, i feel indignant that a young Christian should be made to feel like her faith is inadequate based on such irrelevant factors.

you may argue that it isn’t irrelevant. but does it really matter if ultimately i believe and love God? is it necessary to prioritize these peripheral acts over internal beliefs, inducing guilt that doesn’t benefit one’s religious faith?

perhaps such a conflict can only be concretely understood if you’d experienced something similar.

every time i was made to pay respects (the buddhist way) in my family, all i could think of was “Sorry God, sorry God, i don’t mean to do this”. but what i was apologizing for wasn’t for idolizing other gods (because i didn’t) – i was apologizing just for going through the motions of holding joss sticks. is that really a sin?

according to what the church then told me – yes it was.

i felt guilt both from not carrying out due respect for my ancestors (because my thoughts were dominated by how sorry i was), AND from carrying out an act of idol worship God was said to forbid.

reading some of the replies, it’s clear that not all churches hold equal stances about these superstitious acts. some prohibit even the act of it, some discourage, others may allow it as long as it doesn’t affect one’s internal beliefs.

it’s nice to know there’s still a reasonable sliding scale within churches, so thanks for letting me know.

it is a little strange that there are (more) people reading my posts other than the church one. i mean, everyone’s having serious business intellectual discussions in my comments. maybe they wanted more material for discourse

…instead they get my daily rants about butt injuries, my obsession with chocolate chip cookies, and incoherent monologues.

also slightly wary because even my archives from years ago are touched and this blog has been around since i was the most embarrassing 13-year-old monkey. do i really want people to know that i used to fantasize about being Bubbles when watching Powerpuff Girls?

April 22, 2014

Religion, Updates

Published by

qing t

Responses

Edison

April 23, 2014 at 6:04 pm

If only all Christian think like you…
I’m no Christian but been to Church before and seriously, the way most behave led me to believe I was at some cult gathering instead…

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Thalia Lim

April 23, 2014 at 6:18 pm

Nice piece. I went through the whole drill so I know how you felt and feel now. Joss sticks or no joss sticks, just move on. And take comfort in one thing too. The family unit is extremely important in a Jewish community so paying respect to our ancestors who have passed on is fine. Have faith !

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Paul Ferguson

April 23, 2014 at 6:19 pm

Someone linked these comments to my blog. My overall concern with what you have written is that there does not appear to be any consistent theological logic in your remarks. For instance, you question “does it really matter if ultimately i believe and love God?” when advocating a position that objectively places your outside of Biblical truth. To love God is not some mushy sentimental feeling but a life evidenced by obedience to His Word. Jesus Christ stated categorically, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” ( John 14:15) and the Apostle of Love stated, “And this is love, that we walk after his commandments” (2 John 1:6).

What you have written is politically correct but it is not biblically correct. It will earn you the approbation of those who stand contrary to the Christian message but that is all. I wouldn’t derive comfort from that. Frankly they will not be your ultimate judge. I would suggest that you think more carefully your position. To claim your still love God and hate His commandments is to try an act like the man who shot his parents and then complained because he was an orphan!

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Anonymous

April 23, 2014 at 6:28 pm

What denomination of christian church did you attend? What they taught you was wrong, particularly about paying respects holding joss sticks.

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Anonymous

April 23, 2014 at 9:19 pm

There is nothing wrong with holding joss sticks as a mark of respect to the dead or ancestors. It is a Chinese tradition and nothing religious about it. We are even encouraged to eat the food for ancestral offering. Why waste food provided for by the Lord. Find out more, attend the RCIA (Rites of Christian Initiation for Adults) in a Catholic Church. Cheers, William.

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Anonymous

April 23, 2014 at 9:45 pm

When you try to take your first step out of the four walls of religious confinement, you will bound to knock into those walls which keep their members imprisoned. The thing about religious entrapment is that once you have given your soul to them, it is very difficult, rather almost impossible, to get out of their ideological bondage. No common sense or reasoning works with people who are living in “another world” hence, sensible dialogue or any form of reasoning with them is mostly useless.

Like you, I have been there – and was very much entrenched in the religious system – but thank my common sense, managed to successfully break away from Christianity.

Having said that, the bible is a book of imagery that talks about the beginning and the end of natural civilization and the order of political power( kingdom of god). A God the book of John revealed as …the Word.

The Word is not the bible( wrongly taught). The Word is not found in the mouths of preachers who rule over their congregation with their unique brand of ideology or beliefs/interpretations

The Word man is to live by is the final authority.

And the mouth whereby the words that Jesus said man shall live by is certainly not your pastor/pope’s words!

Hope you too will successfully shake off the religious shackles and be freed of her(Christianity) mindless babbling( teachings which are useless in the living world)

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Anonymous

April 23, 2014 at 10:17 pm

Christianity can and will never resolve the world political and treacherous disorder. Come on, no one with any ounce of common sense will submit to a theological resolution. In fact, Christianity is mostly responsible for the political chaos in the world.

Nevertheless, there is sensibility in dragon, angels , pillars of fire and liquid furnace that await those who dare defy the lord of the oracles.

However, sensibility does not rest on a talking snake. If you believe that, you need to see your psychiatrist.

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Glenn

April 23, 2014 at 10:54 pm

I feel heartened that you would ask the pertinent questions about your faith. I asked the same sort of questions 5 yrs ago and slowly, surely, it led me down a path that has been more than fulfilling to me. I asked questions about whether morality was intrinsic in humanity, the need for religion and the existence of god. We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. Some of us just NEED to believe in the existence of god, however i have found it is possible to believe in god, but not have a religion. I think Einstein was something along those lines.

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Anonymous

April 24, 2014 at 10:17 am

Hi, I stumbled my way to your blog with the “joss stick post” on TRS. And I just thought to share a few things with you just as I did on TRS.

“To be honest, I don’t think the author has stepped beyond worshiping a private and personal God. There are a few reasons why I think so. The point of view here by the author is generally speaking correct. It is correct for a babe in the body of Christ to think this way. But, it is definitely not alright for people who claim to have an intimate walk with God to do so.

A very apt question to ask yourself if you have no idea what is right is “Would Jesus do this if He was in my shoes?” I mean, I’m pretty sure He won’t be holding joss sticks to pay respects to His ancestors. I respect the dead and I personally also have no issue with holding joss sticks but what does this act say about your faith? While it has done no harm to you, you have already stumbled others who are watching you. There are already quite a few, I suppose, to have come up to the author and asked, “Christian can hold joss stick meh?” And seeing that the family is agnostic to a certain degree, what message does it send to them? This sort of compromise does not reveal the seriousness in which you place your faith in to your family members. And the reason I’m saying this is because my family members are pre-believers and I am trying to reach out to them. Therefore, if I were to be holding joss sticks, to be going to temples with them, to be doing outwardly acts that are non-Christian, is to tell them that Christianity can be compromised. If this sounds like my own personal conviction, I don’t disagree but going back to the question, “Will Jesus do this?” Think about it.

And other than this, the author seems to have placed light emphasis on supposedly trivial acts of the church, like praying in tongues. I come from a church that believes in tongues and it is definitely NOT a trivial act. While I do agree that certain acts like being slain, participating in church activities might sometimes be trivial and vary from person to person, there are also biblical standards to uphold. A strong, believing Christian will definitely tell you that praying in tongues for hours is good for you. Paul himself spoke for hours before he went to church. This is the standard that the bible is teaching, not that speaking in tongues is trivial. Back to the issue of the joss stick worship, if you think that it is a trivial thing because it’s not explicitly said in the bible, then think about the HOLINESS of God. Would the holiness of God permit someone to practise acts that are of another religion or another belief? Would you see a pastor holding joss sticks to pay respect? Jesus even told someone to let the dead bury themselves but does it mean He isn’t showing respect? It just means that in our era, going to the point of worshiping the dead with joss sticks is not right and that there are more important things like following Him. If you think about people who broke rules but got away with it like David who ate the holy showbread while having a right heart for God, then think about this, have you been pushed to the limit like David, who had thousands of men on his heels after his life?

All in all, I see a babe in the body of Christ. I see someone who walks a personal walk with God but has one foot in the world. I see a Christian with world views and values and not a Christian standing out with biblical values. Although I cannot say that I am living a holy life or that I am more holy than the author, I strongly uphold the standards of God as and when I realise that the bible teaches them. During the end times, there is a greater call for holiness and for righteousness. Do not let compromise little by little and let the standard of holiness slip in this generation.”

On a lighter note, I do hope that you find a good church to go to because a good church is often without structure (except for administrative stuff) and it is a joy and privilege to be serving in such a church :) Don’t lose faith in God’s bride! :D

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Anonymous

April 24, 2014 at 1:07 pm

Short Comment coming from someone who grew up going to Roman Catholic Churches every Sunday (In Singapore) and has a few times visited other Christian Churches out of curiosity.

I’d like to say that if you still believe in God and want to strengthen your relationship but don’t want the Church to get in the way, you really should consider going to Catholic Masses every week, it’s a very pleasant, stress-free, no-obligations kind of experience with God. Granted I no longer go to church because with age, my beliefs have changed, but back then I still enjoyed going to church.
Christian churches I find are too progressive for me, it tends to cloud my judgement. Then again I am only human so this is just my opinion, please I mean no disrespect to anyone.

Hope you find your way :)

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1. Anonymous
  
  April 24, 2014 at 2:22 pm
  
  Ironically with age, i went back to the roman catholic church, the true church passed down from Jesus.
  But i do agree your point of view regarding churches of other denomination.
  
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RI

April 24, 2014 at 3:42 pm

Christianity basically corrupted the Kingdom message to one of personal and self obsessed relationship with a romantic notion. The result is that the self possessed start to hear voices and become one of the most divided and confused people on the face of the earth. Oh how great and deep the deception. The ones who supposedly lead you out of Sin actually deliver you into Sin.

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